Your Roundup

When I went to bed last night I felt like I had just watched a horror movie, but it was just the Town Council Meeting.

However, there were some really profound statements made by the public. One of them questioned why ANYONE would want to devote their time, their talent, their desire to contribute to our community, then have to go before "this council" to be approved.

Several of our council members have morphed into blithering idiots, in my opinion, and watching them last night made me sick. How many years has it been town code for the mayor to make appointments? Why change that now? Why put people through the grinder like they did last night, just because a person WANTS to serve on a committee?

It seems the council was shamed into voting yes on the appointment of Kathy Patrick-Baas. Other appointments were shelved for awhile. The mayor was right, pure politics. Kathy should not have had to go through what she did last night!

And isn't it interesting little Timmie and Kenny Who have been discussing how things should be run?

The meeting last nite was a farce.The mayor blamed Sue of playing politics,I think she is entitled to her opinion.All she wanted to do was table it until it could be researched a little more.Whats wrong with that?
Now for something that will get me in trouble.I can not understand why Pat is such a poor loser that she would stoop to such low tatics to discredit Mr Evens.The article in the Gazette proves it. Why is she so intrested in Mr Evens campaign finances? The only thing it did was help him get elected,and it was by a lot of local people investing in him.If Mayor Edwards couldn't come up with enough money, that was his problem. The town has talked, and it is time for Pat and Dean to quit whineing,and trying to cause trouble.Sorry about this,Pat but I could not believe you would do something like what you did.

So you admit it is all about the money, and who has the most money wins the election?

People need to follow the rules Marylou/Steve, and if they don't they should be held accountable.

Trying to cause trouble? Whining? Voicing an opinion isn't allowed anymore? Because the people we supported didn't get elected, we're supposed to just sit back and say nothing?

That ain't gonna happen.

marylou,

"The only thing it did was help him get elected". Your statement above is exactly the reason. Election laws are put in place to prevent cheating on the rules and this is a definite rule violation. You can read the rules for yourself.

If a man is willing to break the rules in a "small" way, it speaks for his character which would certainly have a bearing on whether you might want him in elected office. This is like being just a little bit pregnant - it can grow into bigger and better ambitions!

I believe if Mayor Edwards had done something against the rules, he would have had private detectives (as a matter of fact, I believe that did happen) checking every detail and 20 letters to the editor next day.

Lighten up. EVERYBODY is supposed to obey the law, even the mayor elect.

Marylou,
It is pretty hard for me to get mad at people I consider friends.
I did what I thought was right, just as I did when I filed a complaint on four members of the council for breaking the open meeting law. Mr. Evans broke the law.
If you go to the Arizona Revised Statues it states very clearly candidates are supposed to list thier contributors seperately.
He didn't do that. He lumped the amount of money from 571 people at 38 meetings together and averaged the amount out. If he or someone helping him could count the people and the meetings they could write out recipts with names and amounts on them.
A legal pad with the names and contributions could have been used and receipts sent later.
If someone cheats on thier campaign contributions what else will they try to get away with???

I'm sure there are some who think it's hilarious for Edwards supporters to be trying to pin law breaking on others. I think that their viewpoint is that if Edwards hasn't broken laws, he's certainly pushed the line on all too many. So let's frame things up properly here. There are two distinct perspectives that folks have.

And when it comes to money, didn't Edwards run with far more money last time than did Barbara Brewer? I didn't hear Edwards supporters chalking the win up to that then. A note on that though too to be fair - I don't think that Barb did as good of a job fundraising then as she could have - I think that she got beaten down a bit much from all the personal attacks.

If you look at this election, I would say that there was a significant split between working people and retirees, and just enough retirees went to Kenny's side give him the win. How much of a role money played, I don't know. But this is the time for healing, for this community to start coming together behind the newly elected council. Let's let Kenny and the new council come in and see what they can do before berating them.

Tim,
If you know that Mayor Edwards broke the law, have the backbone to file a complaint. Have your backup material ready when you get attacked for blowing the whistle. I do !

Tim, you keep saying who elected Kenny. But you forget this : The Realtors, The Realtors wife or husband, maybe their kids if old enough to vote, and the Realtors friends. Then there is the Developers, their spouses, their kids, their friends, then there is the "old regime" and their spouses, and their kids, and their friends. The church members, their spouses, their kids, their friends, I could go on, but you get the drift. How do you know how many retirees went to Kenny's side, or did you just make that up?

The fact is, and you can't deny it, there was a strong coalition working in the background for a long time, working to get rid of Bob Edwards, and you know I know what I'm talking about.

Brewer lost because she was a loser, couldn't even conduct a meeting. Edwards won because people were sick of how Town Hall was run. And I believe we will all see how it drifts right back into the same old way.

Even if Kenny Who performs brilliantly, I will always remember how he got to the mayors seat, and you know what I'm talking about :) Not exactly up front about things, right? Not really because he thought Bob Edwards was going to "stack" the council, right?

Last night, if you were watching the council meeting, THAT was a stacked council!

"The Realtors, The Realtors wife or husband, maybe their kids if old enough to vote, and the Realtors friends. Then there is the Developers, their spouses, their kids, their friends, then there is the "old regime" and their spouses, and their kids, and their friends. The church members, their spouses, their kids, their friends,"

If Kenny had all those people backing him it should have been a landslide!

Shovelhead, you are soooo funny :)

Tim was trying to downplay who supported Kenny who, saying there are ONLY XX amount of Realtors, blah blah blah. I just wanted to point out a simple fact. Did I make it plain enough?

And I might add that a couple of Realtors donated money and on the forms it gave thier occupation as N/A .

Oh, and have you seen the letter in today's Roundup by one of Kenny Who's Lap Dog? You'll know who I'm talking about when you read it.

Hilarious!!!!

I think it is the other way around. (:

Why wasn't the letter printed when it supposedly happened?
Waiting for the election to be over?
It's over and the mud slinging is still going on. Afraid something may happen with the complaint on the financial reports and Mayor Edwards stay in office as he was the next highest vote getter?
Now thats a thought !

Dean,

It never ceases to amaze me how much you attack Realtors! After all, you're daughter is one, and is married into a family of builders. She vociferously supported Kenny Evans - all throughout the election I saw her consistently wearing a Kenny Evans button.

The key comment I have to say is something I noticed on election day. I really thought Kenny had about a 20% chance at best. But I was previewing property that day and kept noticing something - Evans had by far the most signs around in town. And a lot of those were at businesses, many of which have nothing to do with real estate. That was when I started to wonder if I was wrong about his lack of a chance. I firmly believe that the business community, not just the real estate community, got behind Kenny. Still though, if I had to point to one thing that swung the election, I would probably say the gas bills. I think there was perception that Kenny was more responsive on that than the mayor. Right? Wrong? I don't know, but I think it definitely played a factor and got some retirees who may have been on the fence to vote for Evans.

And Pat, the way you post, you 'ought to run for office. It reminds me of a quote from the movie The American President:

"Is the view pretty good from the cheap seats, A.J.? ... Because it occurs to me that in twenty five years I've never seen YOUR name on a ballot. Now why is that? Why are you always one step behind ME?"

If you know it all Pat, then why are you depriving us of your leadership?

Tim,
First off Dean and I have a mind of our own. We do not walk to the drum of our kids, nor do they walk to our drums.
I was a Realtor for over 20 years.
My grandson is a contractor and his dad and brother work for him.
Another son is a very devout LDS member and I would bet he didn't vote for Evans.
Evans was blowing smoke when he was going to fix the gas bills and have the town see to it that the gas company was on a regular meter reading. The Town does not stay on a regular reading of water meters. Sometimes they even estimate a bill. Check that one out !

I was asked to run for council, thank you, and chose not to as I can get more information to the citizens than if I sat up on that little stage.
My name has been on a ballot for a lot of years trying to choose the best person to be in office.

For someone that doesn't live in town and can't vote you seem to think you know it all, maybe you should move to town and run. I have never said I know it all, but I am sure I am more informed than you are.

I also know more about the history of Payson than you do. (:

Moderator, I did not start this attack on Tim. I am only responding. I will defend myself.

Pat
There was a long list of Evens supporters in the Roundup, I know 'cause I looked for a certian one, and you know who I mean. It wasnt there, thank god and I know he did give some.I can't believe you and Dean can't see some of the crap that has went on at council meetings.When he didn't get his way you could see him puff up. Then that article that was in the Roundup and the Gazette, I thought was disgusting.It takes a lot of nerve to tell people to cancel their subscriptions.You guys talk about that reporter that was so bad
'dont' you think his article was a little over the top?Also all this talk about B Brewer is pretty sick. Shes not in politics any more sos that past history.Attacking Mr Evens is sick when he hasn't had a chance to do any thing.At least hes going into office the legal!!!!!!!way, not early like some people.
When you two can't change anything by doing all this back stabing,whats the point?Also Dean when you listed all the things the mayor had done. it seems to me they were all normal things that any mayor in office was suppose to do. This is all my opinion.another thing the statement was made that Mudsprings would not go thru as long as he was mayor.Thats giving in to the people that live on that side of town,excluding the ones that live on Granite Dells,who need that road thru to 260.As I have mentioned before they started the word by-pass which to a normal person is stupid.No one in their right mind is going to turn off 260 and go thru that mess of roads just to get to 87.Just think about it for a bit,it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Heres a p.s.
Why are you two so down on realtors and developers? Seems theres a lot more people in this town then just them. who were disgusted with the wqy things were being run,or he would still be in office.

OK Tim, I'll start with you because you brought my daughter into this conversation. I defy you to show me where I have "attacked" Realtors. I have said many times how proud I am of my daughter, and I've said many times how hard Realtors have to work, and what a thankless job it can be. Same with construction, I've watched my son in law work his ass off for as long as I've known him. And you are right about my daughter, she supported Kenny Who just as I supported Bob Edwards, and I know for a fact that most Realtors did support Kenny who, so where does that say I'm attacking them? It's just a fact, a statement, OK?

The website put up by Kenny Who said it all, showed a calender of events, LOTS of Realtors hosting events, etc. Then of course there are the e-mails you sent me laying out the plan between Kenny Who and the police chief, how they would decide who was going to run against Bob Edwards, way back in October. You remember those don't you? Your information proves that Kenny Who was not that forthright about why he was running against the mayor. IT WAS A WELL LAID OUT PLAN, not "because the mayor was going to stack the council." And I know you know it, since you are the one that told me :)

Marylou, it is really hard to respond to you because your posts are hard to decipher, but I'll try. First of all, for the longest time we (the mayors supporters) have had to listen to you all whine and bitch and moan and grumble about Bob Edwards. You have been doing it forever. He's going to be gone soon, but you are still whining.
Now it's our turn. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and don't ever assume we don't have the same rights as you do. Don't ever think for one minute I will just sit in a corner and not put out an opinion. I am taking your job, bashing the mayor, insulting anyone that posts on here that has an opinion that differs from yours. I know your job doesn't pay all that well, but I am going to enjoy taking it over.

Now, as far as BBrewer, have you ever been in her beauty shop? Have you ever sat there and listened to her spread filthy vile rumors? Well I have. Maybe she is not in politics anymore but her actions affected other peoples lives forever. And not in a good way.

And Tim, I will finish with this. Because of the local politics, and who I supported, and who I didn't, my daughter will barely talk to me. It's hard for me to understand because I have no ill will towards her and who she supported.

I'm hoping the day will come when not just her, but everybody, will understand it's just politics, people have different opinions, and just because I don't agree with you, just because I think Bob Edwards did a good job, and I don't think Kenny who will, just because we don't agree, it doesn't mean we can't be civil to each other. OK?

It's so nice to have Pat and Dean back because it brings back the mud slinging again. When your children won't speak to you that really says something Dean.

It's so nice to have you back too Hinton, I've really missed your inane comments.

I did not say my daughter isn't speaking to me. Barely talking is different than not speaking.

And I agree, that says a lot. It says how polarizing politics can be. It says how politics can rip families apart. It says how ugly local politics can be, how it can affect friends, families, and people we've never met...like you. How someone like you, who has never met me, has let politics form your opinion about me. And me about you. And what I think about you, because our politics differ.

Yeah, it really says something.

Marylou,
I don't know who's name you were looking for in Evans supporters.
I know there are some people that have given money to both candidates in past elections to be covered no matter who won.

As for Evans going in at the legal time, he has already tried to go in early and there was a ruling on it that said no. We have had one Mayor in a long time that when into office when he was supposed to, and people have griped ever since.

What you don't understand, Brewer is still in politics. I think on Evan's website she was about the first one to have a meeting for him.
Maybe one of those where they passed the hat?

The really dirty part of politics doesn't take place at the council meetings.

Chief,
I noticed you never posted anything constructive while we took a rest from the forum.
Not many other people posted either.

It would help all of us if you understood what you read. Dean did not say her daughter wouldn't speak to her.
Anyone that has kids know they get thier noses out of joint and can be difficult. One thing I have learned. Kids never are as smart as thier parents because we have more years to have learned than they have.

First of all, I supported Bob Edwards because I thought he did a lot of good for the Town. I have a couple of comments about the posts above:

Tim's from 3/28 at 9:11 pm: "One thing that swung the election ... gas bills." I don't think anyone can lower the gas bills. SemStream sets the amounts billed, and has its reasons for the increases. NO ONE, not Kenny, and not Bob, can change what SemStream bills.

Mary Lou's from 3/29 at 7:59 am: "There was a long list of Evens supporters in the Roundup, I know 'cause I looked for a certian one, and you know who I mean. It wasnt there, thank god and I know he did give some." Is Mary Lou stating as fact that someone gave money to Evans, but his name isn't listed as a contributor?

Doesn't Mary Lou's post imply that she KNOWS someone gave money to Evans, but that person's contribution wasn't listed on his reports?

To use Pat's phrase, "enquiring minds want to know" ...

Mikey, Pat can tell you more about this than I can, but I think there were donations to Kenny Who by "passing the hat", with no names mentioned, and the amounts not reported, just averaged out. Maybe that's legal, maybe not, I don't know enough about election laws to say one way or another.

Mikey.
On his financial report he listed 38 meetings-571 attendees--small pass the hat contributions-- average of $10.18 per attendee.
Total amount $5714.56

If someone counted the attendees, why didnt they write down the amount of money given?
If they were using averages, that averages 15 people at each meeting.
Not all gathered at the same time. Shouldn't have been to hard to keep track of who gave how much. Any third grader should be able to do the math.

As for the supporters in the paper they may not have given money and people that gave money may not have wanted their name in the paper...

I think I said in an earlier post, some people give to all the candidates .
Keep them selves covered who ever gets elected. (:

It is very easy go to Town Hall and find how who contributed how much if the forms are filled out right.
You can request to look at them without paying to have them copied at 50 cents a sheet.

I don't have a clue about the name Marylou was looking for.

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz, P U, I think I smell sour grapes mixed with curmudgeon and a touch of boredom.

Butt out ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz, you've been full of sour grapes for a long long time. It's our turn now :)

Pat
If you would stop and think about it,you would know who I am talking about.There is nothing wrong in keeping a name off of things,especially in this town.In this town you are damned if you do and damned if you don't Every one is so hot to condemn before they know all the ins and outs,that decent people tend to keep their deeds and ideas to themselves.
Dean
I don't think I've griped near as much as a few other people on these threads.Most of my griping has been done on the event center and the YMCA,and other things that involves every one,not just the mayor and counsil.