Note: The Payson Roundup does not necessarily agree with comments posted below - responsibility lies with the relevant user alone. Read our full policy.
It is no wonder the school does not want to comment on the assault of a student in Dec. How can a student walk around with a 16 inch chain and no teacher or school official notice it? Where was the teacher when the incident started in the classroom? I think Mr. O'Brien is confused when he states that the schools have an effective Postive Behavior and Intervention program.
Unbelievable isn't it? That's probably why the school officials tried to cover it up, still trying to cover it up. I'm glad to see the Roundup now has a couple of reporters that got the stories. It's become interesting again. And I'm reading it all Pat :)
I wonder how many chains, knives etc have been taken from students that we have never heard about. would we have heard about the Dec. incident if the parent hadn't talked to the paper? I thought all teachers had aides in the room, were they both out of the room when this incident started? Why wern't the students removed from the room and sent somewhere, principals office or whatever instead of just going on to the next class? Wasn't the shouting and yelling as reported in the paper noticed by any adult? Are the children really safe in the schools here?
Hi Everyone: As you know I'm from the high school but I can address Pat's question. Chains, which usually look like the "choke chains" on dog collars are illegal on campus. Students often try to wear them like a wallet chain or watch type chain. Sometimes they wear them around their neck. When we see them, we take them and administer consequences. However Pat, to answer your question, taking a chain from a student is not generally "newspaper worthy" news. Additionally, pocket knives are in student's pockets or their backpacks. If they are seen or we hear about them we search the student's backpack or have them empty their pockets. We then administer consequences. To be honest with you we rarely hear of one or take one because a student took it out and threatened other students on campus. It may sound crazy but most kids are a little smarter than that. Additionally, if we find a pocket knife and suspend a student it's hardly front page news for the Roundup. As well, there really are laws like Families in Education Rights to Privacy Act (FERPA) that we must be very cognizant of. If a parent chooses to give names etc. they can pretty much divulge with impunity. If a school administrator gives out information that is covered under the FERPA laws they could lose their certificate and lose their career. It's very high stakes and much better to play it safe - believe me. Remember these people (administrators) on top of being held accountable for their school also have families and their reputation to protect. Just some thoughts. Roy
Roy, I don't think any one out here cares about the grades the students are getting, except the parents. Or at least they shoud be. Why are any chains, or pocket knives allowed? Take them away and don't give them back with a warning to leave them at home. Dispose of them. They don't need to be suspended for having one unless it is a second offense or an attack on someone. Make it a rule. Like no cigarettes or drugs. Do you give them back to the student at the end of the day? You did NOT answer the question, where was the teacher when the shouting started in the room? It should have been stopped there. In the last part of your post, it seems as tho the high stakes you are concerned with are your job, your family and reputation, not the safety of the students. I think the reputation of the administrators is going down hill real fast.
Pat, here is what I found with respect to release of student criminal behavior/act information by the schools. From the FERPA web site ยง 99.8 What provisions apply to records of a law enforcement unit? (d) The Act neither requires nor prohibits the disclosure by any educational agency or institution of its law enforcement unit records. (Ex. Payson PD or School Security)
(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1232g(a)(4)(B)(ii))
As far as I can tell, the schools are legally alowed to release student criminal act/behavior information to the public. But as a matter of SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION POLICY they don't have too. FERPA LAWS deal with school education records and financial information. NOT criminal activity by a student.
Like I said no one cares about the grades. It is not only the school that won't release the 'criminal' records, it is the police dept and a lot of times the newspaper has the info. and won't print the names. I can understand the school not giving out info. to any and all but, once it becomes an issue with police we should know. I am saying it should be released to the public after the police make an arrest. You may have some kid hanging around with yours that seems the perfect child and have an arrest record a mile long. As they say you can't tell a book by it's cover.
I knew two boys in Mesa that seemed perfect gentlmen, one an honor student and seemed to be great kids.. One was a drug user and the other one was a drug user, alcoholic, burgler and died at 38 from drugs, alcohol and aids. The one that died had been arrested 76 times before he was an adult and never spent any time in jail except for the days he was arrested. He was ordered to go to drug abuse programs. They were both from very respectable two parent homes. I don't think either ever committed assault. Self destructive, but not good companions for anyone.
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Note: The Payson Roundup does not necessarily agree with comments posted below - responsibility lies with the relevant user alone. Read our full policy.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on January 11, 2008 at 6:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is no wonder the school does not want to comment on the assault of a student in Dec.
How can a student walk around with a 16 inch chain and no teacher or school official notice it?
Where was the teacher when the incident started in the classroom?
I think Mr. O'Brien is confused when he states that the schools have an effective Postive Behavior and Intervention program.
Posted by Goldplay (Dean Shields) on January 12, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Unbelievable isn't it? That's probably why the school officials tried to cover it up, still trying to cover it up. I'm glad to see the Roundup now has a couple of reporters that got the stories. It's become interesting again. And I'm reading it all Pat :)
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on January 12, 2008 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I wonder how many chains, knives etc have been taken from students that we have never heard about.
would we have heard about the Dec. incident if the parent hadn't talked to the paper?
I thought all teachers had aides in the room, were they both out of the room when this incident started? Why wern't the students removed from the room and sent somewhere, principals office or whatever instead of just going on to the next class? Wasn't the shouting and yelling as reported in the paper noticed by any adult?
Are the children really safe in the schools here?
Posted by roysandoval (roy sandoval) on January 13, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hi Everyone:
As you know I'm from the high school but I can address Pat's question. Chains, which usually look like the "choke chains" on dog collars are illegal on campus. Students often try to wear them like a wallet chain or watch type chain. Sometimes they wear them around their neck. When we see them, we take them and administer consequences. However Pat, to answer your question, taking a chain from a student is not generally "newspaper worthy" news. Additionally, pocket knives are in student's pockets or their backpacks. If they are seen or we hear about them we search the student's backpack or have them empty their pockets. We then administer consequences. To be honest with you we rarely hear of one or take one because a student took it out and threatened other students on campus. It may sound crazy but most kids are a little smarter than that. Additionally, if we find a pocket knife and suspend a student it's hardly front page news for the Roundup. As well, there really are laws like Families in Education Rights to Privacy Act (FERPA) that we must be very cognizant of. If a parent chooses to give names etc. they can pretty much divulge with impunity. If a school administrator gives out information that is covered under the FERPA laws they could lose their certificate and lose their career. It's very high stakes and much better to play it safe - believe me. Remember these people (administrators) on top of being held accountable for their school also have families and their reputation to protect.
Just some thoughts.
Roy
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on January 13, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Roy,
I don't think any one out here cares about the grades the students are getting, except the parents. Or at least they shoud be.
Why are any chains, or pocket knives allowed? Take them away and don't give them back with a warning to leave them at home. Dispose of them. They don't need to be suspended for having one unless it is a second offense or an attack on someone.
Make it a rule. Like no cigarettes or drugs. Do you give them back to the student at the end of the day?
You did NOT answer the question, where was the teacher when the shouting started in the room? It should have been stopped there.
In the last part of your post, it seems as tho the high stakes you are concerned with are your job, your family and reputation, not the safety of the students.
I think the reputation of the administrators is going down hill real fast.
Posted by DonEvans (don evans) on January 13, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Pat, here is what I found with respect to release of student criminal behavior/act information by the schools. From the FERPA web site
ยง 99.8 What provisions apply to records of a law enforcement unit?
(d) The Act neither requires nor prohibits the disclosure by any educational agency or institution of its law enforcement unit records.
(Ex. Payson PD or School Security)
(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1232g(a)(4)(B)(ii))
As far as I can tell, the schools are legally alowed to release student criminal act/behavior information to the public. But as a matter of SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION POLICY they don't have too. FERPA LAWS deal with school education records and financial information. NOT criminal activity by a student.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on January 13, 2008 at 5:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Like I said no one cares about the grades.
It is not only the school that won't release the 'criminal' records, it is the police dept and a lot of times the newspaper has the info. and won't print the names. I can understand the school not giving out info. to any and all but, once it becomes an issue with police we should know.
I am saying it should be released to the public after the police make an arrest. You may have some kid hanging around with yours that seems the perfect child and have an arrest record a mile long.
As they say you can't tell a book by it's cover.
I knew two boys in Mesa that seemed perfect gentlmen, one an honor student and seemed to be great kids.. One was a drug user and the other one was a drug user, alcoholic, burgler and died at 38 from drugs, alcohol and aids. The one that died had been arrested 76 times before he was an adult and never spent any time in jail except for the days he was arrested. He was ordered to go to drug abuse programs. They were both from very respectable two parent homes.
I don't think either ever committed assault. Self destructive, but not good companions for anyone.
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