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Also, does anyone know why all those businesses closed down?
I heard that Goodwill closed due to lease/property owner stuff(<---just a rumor--I don't remember who told me, and I don't know if it is true). As for the Chinese restaurant on 87 and 260...well, it was at least one other Chinese restaurant before that one, and maybe a few things before that. I seem to recall that building closed down for several years after the JB's closed. Why can't anything stay open in that building? It has a great location. And how many video stores does Payson need?
I remember what Payson was like before Walmart. (The first Walmart in Basha's shopping center.) It was a busy little town with lots of Mom And Pop stores, etc. Walmart definitely hurt small businesses, but I do my shopping at Walmart, so I can't really say Walmart is a bad thing. I like to say I hate Walmart, but I shop there. Go figure.
One stop stopping without getting ripped off on price. Mom and Pop stores where you couldn't find anything you needed and if you did, you paid dearly. More people shopped in the valley then. Peggy's Payson Place is the exception. Where else in Payson could you buy a pair of shoes before Walmart? I hope that is the right name. The clothing store next to the bank and across the street from the jail.
The rent is to high on most of these buildings,and they keep putting in things that are frivolous things, like how many greeting cards and wraping paper do you need,unles it is Hallmark,which went out because of high rent.There are to many beauty shops and antique stores.We just lost another furniture store and coffe shop.The chamber and the counsil need to try to promote things that the people in town will support, and not depend on the tourist trade,which we don't have many of.Also yoou can't blame Wal-MArt for all of it From a good source in the valley,the reason Payson wasn't in the running for a Target is population,not enough.They lumped Payson and Fountian Hills together and put the store on the lower end of Shea in that shopping center.
There is a new restaurant that just opened up in town. It is called Charlies 50's Diner and is in what I call the Old Frozen Cow, behind the Time Out store. I ate there last week and they served good hamburgers. They offered 1/4 lb, 1/3 lb, and 1/2 lb with a large selection of garnishes. Their outdoor patio is a pleasant place to sit on a nice afternoon. I would recommend it.
The frozen cow was too pricey for me. Is Charlies more affordfable? I don't expect a .99 cent great burger. I wasn't impressed with Earls in Scottsdale last weekend. It was way too pricey for my taste, 11.99 for a cheeseburger. One of those been there done that aint gonna do it again experiences!
Kathy, This is the 3rd business to open there since the Frozen Cow left. I hope they make it, but it is so hidden. The Frozen Cow made it because they had a following when they moved there. They started out in the Hopi House Strip at 87 and 260. It was probably torn down by the time you moved here.
Shovelhead, Were you drunk or really hungry when you paid that much for a cheeseburger? Keep your mouth open on your Harley and eat bugs. (:
Regarding Charlie's 50s Diner, the burgers are in the $4-$5.00 range. The fries are extra. They also have hotdogs and chili dogs on their menu but can't recall the prices.
Marylou said exactly what the problem is.... rent is too high in town for retail/business space. The triple-tier method for leasing that the property owners from Phoenix charge up here is outrageous. Even the smaller plaza's are falling victim to these landlords. The town should have stepped in long ago and now it may be too late. The amount of small businesses succeeding in Payson is dwindling for many reasons. But the rent charged is tops on the list.
How can the Town tell Business what they can charge? If the town would buy up all of the business space, then they could charge what they want, but that will not happen.
I did not say that the town should control rents in town. But I do believe there is/was something the town, in its almighty wisdom, could do/have done to impress upon business property landlords to keep the leases and rent amounts within the towns "means". Instead, grossly inflated rents are charged and the owners could care less if they're vacant or not. Vacant gives them tax write-off's that otherwise could not be exercised. This has been discussed in threads of the past already.
Look, I'm not saavy in alot of things but I do know when I'm being ripped off. And paying rent for a small business suite in town under threat of the new lease contract being triple-tiered with a "tough to budget" new rent increase.... it just plain out sucks. Closing is not an option since we are successful, relocating is - but under what landlords tyranny this time. Time will tell when negotiations start this summer.
Or the Town could buy up all the property and level all the buildings like they did in Mesa, Gilbert and Scottsdale. Smart move on thier part. Now there are no property taxes being paid in Gilbert and Scottsdale. Mesa has never had a property tax.. Stupid gov. Mesa city fathers tried to convince the people of Mesa to vote for a property tax a year or so .
In buildings were there is more than 1 Business , why don't they all get togeather and buy the building and then divide the cost up to make the payments on your building. Then the rent would stay the same you hope. just a thought.
Back to the 50's dinner where the Frozen Cow usee to be, i stoped in for a cheeseburger, fries, and a vanila shake Monday, and it was great. The burger is open faced with meat only, and you have a choice of every addition to a cheeseburger you would posssibly want, on a serve your-self basis condiment bar.. The food, atmosphere, and service was great. They have not hed their Grand Opening yet, but, the majority of people there that day were all saying they heard about the cafe, and came to see how good it was. Sylvia Smith, our Town Clerk, was there to participate on the great menu and service, which is fast. Try it, you will like it..
Amanda, It seems there is something wrong with the way the sewer system is hooked up to the property where the Chinese restaurant was on the corner of 87 and 260. Water or whatever will not run uphill. I dont know why the town, sewer district, or health dept keeps letting them open untill the problem is fixed. Didn't Basha's and Safeway rent videos before the video stores came in?
It seems a business will move in and being doing ok then three or four more of the same kind think what a deal. Then in a little while they are all closed. I agree, high rent is a major problem. Usually you need enough money to get you thru the first five years, before you starting getting a pay back.. People don't do enough research on what will work and all the things that can go wrong in the first 5 years. First of all you have to have the local citizens to keep you open unless you are a franchised fast food. They seem to make it anywhere.
Why was the hotel that was going in on the S. side of Longhorn behind the Walgreens never built? The Town? Now they are bending over backwards to help get a hotel at the event center. That hotel will just keep more people from getting down into the rest of Payson. They aren't going to get a room then run down to GVP, Zane Greys cabin or go shopping on Main. They won't even know it is there. Not that there is all that many places to shop on Main, unless you need car repair, teeth fixed or your dog is sick. You have to pass by and see something to be able to stop and shop.
About 14 yrs. ago we were driving down Scottsdale road and I saw a Navajo Rug hanging in a store window. I told my husband turn around. I bought the rug, over a thousand dollars. I was not out shopping for a rug, just saw it as we were driving by and fell in love with it. Didn't even know that the store sold Navajo rugs. You have to see things to want to buy.
In my opinion the reason a lot of things have been talked about but never built is the Town decides that they don't want a particular business so it isn't allowed on some technicality. Remember how they fought Mavrik Service Station over a liquor license and thought the wine shop or whatever in Safeway shopping center was so great at the same time?
Nethken's did more work on the Oxbow than has been done in a long while and the town just kept asking for more and more. Finally they gave up. I wonder how much of what was required of them was taken out by the present owners??? The town should not approve the plans to begin with or once they are approved, don't keep making the owner change things. Very costly and time consuming. How long has Hallie Overman been trying to work with the town on the Chilson property down near GVP? When will the buildings on E. Main ever be filled up? Haven't they been there about a year now?
Shovelhead, It is alright to go to Charlies 50's diner. You can spend as little or as much as you want on a cheeseburger and sides. The hamburger meat is terrific. Not frozen, greasy, hard little slabs of meat. Really good !
Yes Marylou, I know about hamburger. (: I was raised on a ranch and ate home grown beef and had a restaurant. We only sold Angus grade beef there. A bit of information to irritate you. All beef that says Angus does not come from Angus cattle. It is a grade of meat. If you knew and remember E.C. Conway, when we advertised Angus meat at the restaurant, he asked if we left some of the hide on to know if it really came from Angus cattle. I did my research and that is how I know it is a grade.
Ok, only because you recommended it. I know you do your research and wouldn't steer me wrong. STEER ! Maybe I should have said you wouldn't point me in the wrong direction!
Well,I tried Charlies 50's diner this evening. As my son-in-law pointed out it was a hundred dollars cheaper than last weekend at Earls and there was more of us. The burger was Ok, it was a little dry and a touch on the crunchy side. The breaded mushrooms were a little cool on the inside. To be fair, I will try them once more to see if it was the size of our group that may have thrown them off their game. As of tonight my personal favorite burger joint is In 'n Out down in the valley. Second place would be Sonic.
PS: as a side note I have to agree with Gordon, the service was outstanding and the condiment bar was complete with anything and everything you could want to put on a burger.
Sorry Pat, The USDA only designates eight grades of beef: prime, choice, select, standard, commercial, utility, cutter, and canner. Young beef is categorized as prime, choice, select, and standard, whereas commercial, utility, cutter, and canner grades refer to more mature meat. Angus, Kobe, etc, refer to the actual name of the species of cow and are not grades of beef. My Grandparents, Parents and I have all been involved with the restaurant business. If you advertise beef as Angus or Kobe, it has to be from that breed.
Leeta, Maybe I should have used the word quality, not grade. I don't know if I still have the books I was given telling how they decide , but I will try to find them, I have moved three times since we sold the restaurant and got rid of a lot of my books, I was given the books from three different distributors. If I can't find them, I will have to take your word for it.
Does Kobe beef come from Japan? I am not being a smart a--. It is a serious question.
Frankly I think range raised beef has the best flavor before they send them to a feed lot.
Pat, Yes, Kobe beef is from a certain breed of Japanese cattle. You'll also see Kobe-style advertised and this is the same breed but not raised in Japan.
USDA "Certified Angus Beef" has to be at least 51% Angus and meet 10 criteria to be labeled as such.
I had to laugh at your 49% right as it reminded me of a plaque a friend of mine bought for my desk. It said "51% Sweetheart, 49% Bitch...so don't push it."
If you think our beef is expensive, you should try buying some Kobe beef without having to withdraw money from your savings account. Kobe beef can sell for up to $300 a pound. I've only eaten it once but it was the best beef I've ever tasted, by far.
The rent is waaaaay too high and thankfully prospective renters are being smart enough to stay away until they come down. Just look at the amount of office space out there for rent, even along the highway. All too often someone comes in trying to do their "dream," but gets in a situation from the get-go where the rent is going to be unmanageable and prevent them from having success. The landlord gets paid, the tenant goes broke.
Mesa desperately needs a property tax. The East Valley Tribune recently had an article about their fire service. The figures showed them already on the bottom of towns in the Phoenix area, and they're getting their budget cut again. Mesa is how you mess up a town and it's going to cost them and take them time just to get in a better situation, though Riverview is a good start. You have to have a game plan and you have to be willing to invest in the future. Look at Tempe, Chandler, and Glendale. Those are models as far as town leadership goes.
The Overman project is a great example of a Payson failure. I think it's a brilliant concept if executed properly. In my opinion, it's probably the best shot at reviving Main Street. People living down there are needed and the more you put down the better chance you have. It'll also add a dimension to Payson that it doesn't currently have - a true place where you can live and then walk some places. Plus, that project will help utilize the Green Valley lakes that much more, which is one of the best quality of life features that Payson has. Hopefully this next town council will do everything they can to make that project happen as soon as possible.
If you read the legals you would see some of that property if not all has been advertised to be sold at trustee sale again (Overman) I am sure you know what that means Tim. She has saved it a couple of times but don't know how long she can hang on.
If Mesa hadn't spent over $93 million on thier great art center and some of the other things they would have money. Also all the expensive statues they have in the old down town Main St. for about 3 or 4 blocks. Buying property and tearing down businesses don't help the budget either.
Downtown Mesa got messed up when the shopping centers started going in and taking away the business from Main St.
All the illegals that have taken over the down town for about 6 miles east and west and 1 mile north and south haven't helped any.
Yes, Tim I do know what I am talking about. I moved to Mesa in 1957 lived there for about 17 years moved to Gilbert for about 16 yrs then back to Mesa until 1995. Watched it all happen.
Charlies second chance went as the first, it was OK. There was no one else in the place so the crowd was not a factor. Two burger combos and a side of mushrooms $20.78. The burger was better but I still prefer In an Out. The fries looked and tasted like frozen fries. In an Out cuts theirs fresh. I won't be a Charlies regular but it isn't the worst place I've ever ate.
Tried Charles yesterday with the family, was very, very impressed. Great burgers and fries. Love the menu! The chocolate malt was amazing!
Best in town definitely. The other places around now have some competition!
Shovelhead, remember the point of the thread. Payson isn't Scottsdale. In and Out is great too, but at $3.35 a gallon, that burger is going to cost you at least $10 in gas round-trip. However, the fact that you're even comparing it is a compliment.
We also tried Charlies yesterday after looking at the great car show on Main St. Business was booming with many of the customers being car show participants from what I could tell. The burgers were as good or better than Macky's. I like the Macky people and their new place. BUT, in my opinion it's way over priced for what you get, the portions are small, and some of the teeny boppers that work there aren't great with customer service. Try the chilli at Charlies, it's pretty good also. I will go back and I hope they make it there.
It sounds like Charlies has a following. That's great! About the same as a new Honda dealer. The world would be a very boring place if we all rode harleys :)
As far as Payson not being Scottsdale, I'm not sure how that fits in with the discussion of good food? If Charlies develops an out of town following like In N Out then he will surely be a happy as well as successful businessman.
Sure, happy to clarify my "Scottsdale" comment. I meant that sure, you could compare their food, but in the spirit of this discussion, you couldn't really compare Charlie's to I+O, becuase they're not about to open a location in Payson, it's not as big as Scottsdale or Phoenix, or the other larger cities they would be targeting. However, I'm glad they did.
The food is good at both places, so enjoy In and Out in Phoenix and Scottsdale, and Charlie's in Payson! I couldn't be happier about that!
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Posted by chrisrafter (Christopher Rafter) on April 9, 2008 at 10:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
When is the last time you saw a new restaurant or retail store open? I'm really starting to miss it. I really can't recall the last time I saw one.
The PostNet opened on Beeline recently, across from the 4 Seasons North, that's about it.
The Chinese restaurant at the NE corner of 260 and 87 closed, the Country Kitchen in the same block. The video store next to the Safeway.
We lost the Goodwill, the video store in the same shopping center. How does a Goodwill go out of business?
WalMart drive everyone out of town? We'll see. I'm personally pulling for Cardo's Pizza.
I look forward to new businesses opening up in Payson.
Posted by angstyjeepo (Amanda Rowland) on April 9, 2008 at 11:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What kind of businesses would you like to see?
Also, does anyone know why all those businesses closed down?
I heard that Goodwill closed due to lease/property owner stuff(<---just a rumor--I don't remember who told me, and I don't know if it is true).
As for the Chinese restaurant on 87 and 260...well, it was at least one other Chinese restaurant before that one, and maybe a few things before that. I seem to recall that building closed down for several years after the JB's closed. Why can't anything stay open in that building? It has a great location.
And how many video stores does Payson need?
Posted by Goldplay (Dean Shields) on April 10, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I remember what Payson was like before Walmart. (The first Walmart in Basha's shopping center.) It was a busy little town with lots of Mom And Pop stores, etc. Walmart definitely hurt small businesses, but I do my shopping at Walmart, so I can't really say Walmart is a bad thing.
I like to say I hate Walmart, but I shop there. Go figure.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 10, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
One stop stopping without getting ripped off on price.
Mom and Pop stores where you couldn't find anything you needed and if you did, you paid dearly. More people shopped in the valley then.
Peggy's Payson Place is the exception. Where else in Payson could you buy a pair of shoes before Walmart? I hope that is the right name. The clothing store next to the bank and across the street from the jail.
Posted by hot1 (marylou HAUGHT) on April 10, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The rent is to high on most of these buildings,and they keep putting in things that are frivolous things, like how many greeting cards and wraping paper do you need,unles it is Hallmark,which went out because of high rent.There are to many beauty shops and antique stores.We just lost another furniture store and coffe shop.The chamber and the counsil need to try to promote things that the people in town will support, and not depend on the tourist trade,which we don't have many of.Also yoou can't blame Wal-MArt for all of it From a good source in the valley,the reason Payson wasn't in the running for a Target is population,not enough.They lumped Payson and Fountian Hills together and put the store on the lower end of Shea in that shopping center.
Posted by kathypatrick (Kathy Patrick-Baas) on April 10, 2008 at 6:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There is a new restaurant that just opened up in town. It is called Charlies 50's Diner and is in what I call the Old Frozen Cow, behind the Time Out store. I ate there last week and they served good hamburgers. They offered 1/4 lb, 1/3 lb, and 1/2 lb with a large selection of garnishes. Their outdoor patio is a pleasant place to sit on a nice afternoon. I would recommend it.
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 10, 2008 at 8:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The frozen cow was too pricey for me. Is Charlies more affordfable? I don't expect a .99 cent great burger. I wasn't impressed with Earls in Scottsdale last weekend. It was way too pricey for my taste, 11.99 for a cheeseburger. One of those been there done that aint gonna do it again experiences!
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 10, 2008 at 9:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Kathy,
This is the 3rd business to open there since the Frozen Cow left. I hope they make it, but it is so hidden. The Frozen Cow made it because they had a following when they moved there. They started out in the Hopi House Strip at 87 and 260. It was probably torn down by the time you moved here.
Shovelhead,
Were you drunk or really hungry when you paid that much for a cheeseburger?
Keep your mouth open on your Harley and eat bugs. (:
Posted by kathypatrick (Kathy Patrick-Baas) on April 10, 2008 at 9:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Regarding Charlie's 50s Diner, the burgers are in the $4-$5.00 range. The fries are extra. They also have hotdogs and chili dogs on their menu but can't recall the prices.
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 10, 2008 at 10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I did get fries with it!
I should have suspected a problem when I didn't see any ketchup bottles on the tables!
Posted by Smallhaven (Carolee Jackson) on April 11, 2008 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Marylou said exactly what the problem is.... rent is too high in town for retail/business space. The triple-tier method for leasing that the property owners from Phoenix charge up here is outrageous. Even the smaller plaza's are falling victim to these landlords. The town should have stepped in long ago and now it may be too late. The amount of small businesses succeeding in Payson is dwindling for many reasons. But the rent charged is tops on the list.
Posted by hot1 (marylou HAUGHT) on April 11, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How can the Town tell Business what they can charge? If the town would buy up all of the business space, then they could charge what they want, but that will not happen.
Steve
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 11, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
When you get the town to set the rent will you ask them to set the profit margin as well?
Posted by Smallhaven (Carolee Jackson) on April 11, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I did not say that the town should control rents in town. But I do believe there is/was something the town, in its almighty wisdom, could do/have done to impress upon business property landlords to keep the leases and rent amounts within the towns "means". Instead, grossly inflated rents are charged and the owners could care less if they're vacant or not. Vacant gives them tax write-off's that otherwise could not be exercised. This has been discussed in threads of the past already.
Look, I'm not saavy in alot of things but I do know when I'm being ripped off. And paying rent for a small business suite in town under threat of the new lease contract being triple-tiered with a "tough to budget" new rent increase.... it just plain out sucks. Closing is not an option since we are successful, relocating is - but under what landlords tyranny this time. Time will tell when negotiations start this summer.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 11, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Or the Town could buy up all the property and level all the buildings like they did in Mesa, Gilbert and Scottsdale. Smart move on thier part. Now there are no property taxes being paid in Gilbert and Scottsdale.
Mesa has never had a property tax..
Stupid gov. Mesa city fathers tried to convince the people of Mesa to vote for a property tax a year or so .
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 11, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Does anyone think we will ever get a target or a Hooters?
Posted by hot1 (marylou HAUGHT) on April 11, 2008 at 5:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In buildings were there is more than 1 Business , why don't they all get togeather and buy the building and then divide the cost up to make the payments on your building. Then the rent would stay the same you hope. just a thought.
steve
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 11, 2008 at 7:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
probably not a Target, as for the other go by the high school.
Posted by Gordon_Metcalf (Gordon Metcalf) on April 11, 2008 at 9:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Back to the 50's dinner where the Frozen Cow usee to be, i stoped in for a cheeseburger, fries, and a vanila shake Monday, and it was great. The burger is open faced with meat only, and you have a choice of every addition to a cheeseburger you would posssibly want, on a serve your-self basis condiment bar.. The food, atmosphere, and service was great. They have not hed their Grand Opening yet, but, the majority of people there that day were all saying they heard about the cafe, and came to see how good it was. Sylvia Smith, our Town Clerk, was there to participate on the great menu and service, which is fast.
Try it, you will like it..
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 12, 2008 at 5:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Amanda,
It seems there is something wrong with the way the sewer system is hooked up to the property where the Chinese restaurant was on the corner of 87 and 260. Water or whatever will not run uphill.
I dont know why the town, sewer district, or health dept keeps letting them open untill the problem is fixed.
Didn't Basha's and Safeway rent videos before the video stores came in?
It seems a business will move in and being doing ok then three or four more of the same kind think what a deal. Then in a little while they are all closed.
I agree, high rent is a major problem. Usually you need enough money to get you thru the first five years, before you starting getting a pay back.. People don't do enough research on what will work and all the things that can go wrong in the first 5 years. First of all you have to have the local citizens to keep you open unless you are a franchised fast food. They seem to make it anywhere.
Why was the hotel that was going in on the S. side of Longhorn behind the Walgreens never built? The Town? Now they are bending over backwards to help get a hotel at the event center. That hotel will just keep more people from getting down into the rest of Payson. They aren't going to get a room then run down to GVP, Zane Greys cabin or go shopping on Main. They won't even know it is there. Not that there is all that many places to shop on Main, unless you need car repair, teeth fixed or your dog is sick.
You have to pass by and see something to be able to stop and shop.
About 14 yrs. ago we were driving down Scottsdale road and I saw a Navajo Rug hanging in a store window. I told my husband turn around. I bought the rug, over a thousand dollars. I was not out shopping for a rug, just saw it as we were driving by and fell in love with it. Didn't even know that the store sold Navajo rugs. You have to see things to want to buy.
In my opinion the reason a lot of things have been talked about but never built is the Town decides that they don't want a particular business so it isn't allowed on some technicality.
Remember how they fought Mavrik Service Station over a liquor license and thought the wine shop or whatever in Safeway shopping center was so great at the same time?
Nethken's did more work on the Oxbow than has been done in a long while and the town just kept asking for more and more. Finally they gave up. I wonder how much of what was required of them was taken out by the present owners???
The town should not approve the plans to begin with or once they are
approved, don't keep making the owner change things. Very costly and time consuming.
How long has Hallie Overman been trying to work with the town on the Chilson property down near GVP?
When will the buildings on E. Main ever be filled up? Haven't they been there about a year now?
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 12, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Shovelhead,
It is alright to go to Charlies 50's diner. You can spend as little or as much as you want on a cheeseburger and sides.
The hamburger meat is terrific. Not frozen, greasy, hard little slabs of meat. Really good !
Yes Marylou, I know about hamburger. (:
I was raised on a ranch and ate home grown beef and had a restaurant. We only sold Angus grade beef there.
A bit of information to irritate you. All beef that says Angus does not come from Angus cattle. It is a grade of meat.
If you knew and remember E.C. Conway, when we advertised Angus meat at the restaurant, he asked if we left some of the hide on to know if it really came from Angus cattle. I did my research and that is how I know it is a grade.
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 12, 2008 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok, only because you recommended it. I know you do your research and wouldn't steer me wrong.
STEER !
Maybe I should have said you wouldn't point me in the wrong direction!
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 12, 2008 at 9:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well,I tried Charlies 50's diner this evening. As my son-in-law pointed out it was a hundred dollars cheaper than last weekend at Earls and there was more of us.
The burger was Ok, it was a little dry and a touch on the crunchy side. The breaded mushrooms were a little cool on the inside. To be fair, I will try them once more to see if it was the size of our group that may have thrown them off their game.
As of tonight my personal favorite burger joint is In 'n Out down in the valley. Second place would be Sonic.
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 12, 2008 at 9:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
PS: as a side note I have to agree with Gordon, the service was outstanding and the condiment bar was complete with anything and everything you could want to put on a burger.
Posted by LeetaRice (Leeta Rice) on April 14, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry Pat,
The USDA only designates eight grades of beef: prime, choice, select, standard, commercial, utility, cutter, and canner. Young beef is categorized as prime, choice, select, and standard, whereas commercial, utility, cutter, and canner grades refer to more mature meat. Angus, Kobe, etc, refer to the actual name of the species of cow and are not grades of beef. My Grandparents, Parents and I have all been involved with the restaurant business. If you advertise beef as Angus or Kobe, it has to be from that breed.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 14, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Leeta,
Maybe I should have used the word quality, not grade.
I don't know if I still have the books I was given telling how they decide ,
but I will try to find them, I have moved three times since we sold the restaurant and got rid of a lot of my books, I was given the books from three different distributors. If I can't find them, I will have to take your word for it.
Does Kobe beef come from Japan? I am not being a smart a--.
It is a serious question.
Frankly I think range raised beef has the best flavor before they send them to a feed lot.
Posted by LeetaRice (Leeta Rice) on April 14, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Pat,
Yes, Kobe beef is from a certain breed of Japanese cattle. You'll also see Kobe-style advertised and this is the same breed but not raised in Japan.
USDA "Certified Angus Beef" has to be at least 51% Angus and meet 10 criteria to be labeled as such.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 14, 2008 at 6:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Leeta,
Thanks, I was 49% right. (:
Most people would not have bothered to explain it. I'll quit looking for my books.
I had heard something about a beef grown in Japan and wondered why if they raised beef our beef was so expensive there.
There are so many breeds of cattle, I lost track long ago.
Posted by LeetaRice (Leeta Rice) on April 14, 2008 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Pat,
I had to laugh at your 49% right as it reminded me of a plaque a friend of mine bought for my desk. It said "51% Sweetheart, 49% Bitch...so don't push it."
If you think our beef is expensive, you should try buying some Kobe beef without having to withdraw money from your savings account. Kobe beef can sell for up to $300 a pound. I've only eaten it once but it was the best beef I've ever tasted, by far.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 14, 2008 at 10:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Leeeta,
I hope someone else was buying your dinner.
Posted by tehrhardt (Tim Ehrhardt) on April 15, 2008 at 7:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The rent is waaaaay too high and thankfully prospective renters are being smart enough to stay away until they come down. Just look at the amount of office space out there for rent, even along the highway. All too often someone comes in trying to do their "dream," but gets in a situation from the get-go where the rent is going to be unmanageable and prevent them from having success. The landlord gets paid, the tenant goes broke.
Mesa desperately needs a property tax. The East Valley Tribune recently had an article about their fire service. The figures showed them already on the bottom of towns in the Phoenix area, and they're getting their budget cut again. Mesa is how you mess up a town and it's going to cost them and take them time just to get in a better situation, though Riverview is a good start. You have to have a game plan and you have to be willing to invest in the future. Look at Tempe, Chandler, and Glendale. Those are models as far as town leadership goes.
The Overman project is a great example of a Payson failure. I think it's a brilliant concept if executed properly. In my opinion, it's probably the best shot at reviving Main Street. People living down there are needed and the more you put down the better chance you have. It'll also add a dimension to Payson that it doesn't currently have - a true place where you can live and then walk some places. Plus, that project will help utilize the Green Valley lakes that much more, which is one of the best quality of life features that Payson has. Hopefully this next town council will do everything they can to make that project happen as soon as possible.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 15, 2008 at 9:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you read the legals you would see some of that property if not all has been advertised to be sold at trustee sale again (Overman) I am sure you know what that means Tim. She has saved it a couple of times but don't know how long she can hang on.
If Mesa hadn't spent over $93 million on thier great art center and some of the other things they would have money. Also all the expensive statues they have in the old down town Main St. for about 3 or 4 blocks.
Buying property and tearing down businesses don't help the budget either.
Downtown Mesa got messed up when the shopping centers started going in and taking away the business from Main St.
All the illegals that have taken over the down town for about 6 miles east and west and 1 mile north and south haven't helped any.
Yes, Tim I do know what I am talking about. I moved to Mesa in 1957 lived there for about 17 years moved to Gilbert for about 16 yrs then back to Mesa until 1995. Watched it all happen.
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 16, 2008 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Charlies second chance went as the first, it was OK. There was no one else in the place so the crowd was not a factor. Two burger combos and a side of mushrooms $20.78. The burger was better but I still prefer In an Out. The fries looked and tasted like frozen fries. In an Out cuts theirs fresh. I won't be a Charlies regular but it isn't the worst place I've ever ate.
Posted by patrandall (pat Randall) on April 17, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Picky, picky !
Posted by chrisrafter (Christopher Rafter) on April 27, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Tried Charles yesterday with the family, was very, very impressed. Great burgers and fries. Love the menu! The chocolate malt was amazing!
Best in town definitely. The other places around now have some competition!
Shovelhead, remember the point of the thread. Payson isn't Scottsdale. In and Out is great too, but at $3.35 a gallon, that burger is going to cost you at least $10 in gas round-trip. However, the fact that you're even comparing it is a compliment.
Posted by DonEvans (don evans) on April 27, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We also tried Charlies yesterday after looking at the great car show on Main St. Business was booming with many of the customers being car show participants from what I could tell.
The burgers were as good or better than Macky's. I like the Macky people and their new place. BUT, in my opinion it's way over priced for what you get, the portions are small, and some of the teeny boppers that work there aren't great with customer service.
Try the chilli at Charlies, it's pretty good also. I will go back and I hope they make it there.
Posted by Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) on April 27, 2008 at 8:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It sounds like Charlies has a following. That's great! About the same as a new Honda dealer. The world would be a very boring place if we all rode harleys :)
As far as Payson not being Scottsdale, I'm not sure how that fits in with the discussion of good food?
If Charlies develops an out of town following like In N Out then he will surely be a happy as well as successful businessman.
Posted by chrisrafter (Christopher Rafter) on April 27, 2008 at 10:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure, happy to clarify my "Scottsdale" comment. I meant that sure, you could compare their food, but in the spirit of this discussion, you couldn't really compare Charlie's to I+O, becuase they're not about to open a location in Payson, it's not as big as Scottsdale or Phoenix, or the other larger cities they would be targeting. However, I'm glad they did.
The food is good at both places, so enjoy In and Out in Phoenix and Scottsdale, and Charlie's in Payson! I couldn't be happier about that!
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