Your Roundup

I don't get it!

I just do not get it!

Having put in one roundabout that drew a ton of flack from the citizens of Payson, the Payson City Council is about to put in another one!

Why?

Why install something that the people just do not want? Why not listen to the people who elected them?

Isn't this supposed to be a democracy? A place where the people run things through their elected representatives?

If that's so, then why isn't the Council listening?

Surely they must have heard all the grumbling. You would would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to know that people do not like the first roundabout and certainly don't want another one.

And quoting ADOT statistics to show why they are ignoring the wishes of the people is just plain wrong-headed.

Statistics don't matter! People don't care about statistics. What they care about is having the Council do what they themselves would do if the question of the roundabout were put to them in an open vote.

Here's what the people are saying, why they do not want another roundabout:

Every time you come to a roundabout you go through a dangerous and uncomfortable experience.

You are forced to rely upon the common sense of drivers who have proven that they have little or no common sense.

And worse than that, you are forced to rely upon their obedience to right-of-way laws that they have proven over and over again they don't obey.

That creates an unpleasant experience, one that is repeated over and over and over again.

The people of Payson don't want to go through that unpleasant experience.

The Council needs to forget all the fancy ADOT statistics and simply remember that they were elected to follow the wishes of the people of Payson.

If they do that, they will reverse their decision on the new roundabout.

Tom, I cpuld not agree more with your view. The one thing that even an issue of this minor magnitude continues to display is the absolute and utter disdain and contempt our elected officials from the local community level all the way up to those elitists at the federal level, have for the concerns and views of the citizens that elect them and whom they are supposed to represent.

One of the reasons I have chosen to more and more withdraw from any responsible civic involvement in many of the things that are current "hot topics" is that I honestly feel that the system of government from bottom to top is so broken that like a cancer, you have to excise it and remove it with often extreme measures, in the hopes the patient will survive that approach and flourish afterwards. Siditious rhetoric? Perhaps, but if memory sevres me, the masses of the common folks that rose up during the French revolution were being subjected to the same disenfrancisement and abuse by the rich and powerful that mainstreet Americans are subjected to today. History certainly does have a way of repeating itself. I continue to watch with much interest to see just how utterly passive and lethargic my fellow citizens wre as regards this state of affairs.

I don't believe all the crap that was supposed to have been said by ADOT. I did not watch the council meeting so am not sure about any of it. But it seems ADOT wanted a light if anything.
I go that way a lot and don't see the need for either except for kids crossing the highway to get to school.

Chief,

Everything you just said echoes things I have said myself. I sometimes feel real pain posting to the blog. It seems so hopeless at times. Why is the council so dead set on doing something the people they "serve" don't want?

I don't get it. I just truly do not get it.

Pat,

Know any way to get the council to take another look at what they are planning to do?

And, by the way, I drive through that intersection every time I come to town. And that is usually on Saturday when traffic is at its highest. The idea that it needs anything at all is ludicrous. Most of the "traffic" is making a right turn off Airport Road and doesn't interfere with the flow of traffic one whit.

Why waste money on something we don't need? Especially at a time when tax money is so short?

I think LaRon Garrett, the town engineer uses Airport rd to get to 87 and work ! (:

Sometimes you just can't fix stupid because some people don't learn from their mistakes so they keep repeating them.

If roundabouts are so great how come they don't use them in the larger towns and cities?
I can't think of one in Mesa, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert or Phx.

I bet it will be to small for the big trucks and trailers, they will have to use both lanes like at home depot, wait tell a little car goes into the roundabout beside a big truck that does not see them and the trailer goes over the car, then what's going to happen

steve

Do you have any statistics on how many little cars were crushed in round-a-bouts by big trucks over the last year?

Shovelhead.
I drive a PT cruiser and if I was not truck smart I would have been crushed by one at the Home Depot roundabout. I could tell he was going to need more room to make the turn into Home Depot so I got out of the way. He still had to go upon the curb to make the turn.

There have been fender benders in the present roundabout, call the police and ask how many.
Do your own research. (:

Pat, you've seen the old shovelhead harley motorcycle I ride. I'm no stranger to defensive driving techniques.

I thought perhaps an insider with ADOT could give some figures since ADOT seemed to be the steering group with the new round-a-bout coming soon at airport road and 87.

I remember people complaining about an automatic transmission in a car. Then it was power brakes. Oh my goodness what will happen when the power brakes fail. Try electronic ignition. Disc brakes. Those little pads won't stop a car.
The world changes Pat and you have to change with it or be left behind in your PT cruiser.

My guess is Zero, nada, zip, goose egg as far as little cars crushed by trucks at the round-a-bout. That's why they put the big bold letters on the trailer that says vehicle makes wide turns. Maybe we need it in spanish as well :)

as you can tell i do not like them , i just have to maintain all the signs in them, i just do signs no one reads the signs anyway,

steve

Mike

I bet if you ask people about the signs on the back of the trailers 90% would not know what you are talking about, like the other one that says ( if i can not see you in my mirror you are to close) something like that.if people would read thing it would help.just like the right turn lane going off 87 onto 260 why do people stop, the only time you have to stop there is when some one is using the crosswalk, there is a green arrow there on 24/7,

steve

Shovelhead,
Don't try to push my buttons. Damn it I know they make wide turns that is why I said I was truck smart, I also know it takes a longer distance for one of them to stop and as Steve said if you are too close behind them the driver can't see you in thier mirrors.

If everyone had to pass the truck drivers tests and motorcycle drivers test, there would probably be more respect for them and safer highways.

Along with Firemen, and Marines, truck drivers are my favorite people.
Harley drivers are OK. (:
I don't know if you remember back before all trucks had CBs and radios how they would flash thier lights when they met on the highway.
They would even flash them at ordinary people if you flashed your lights first. I thought that was a nice friendly thing.

I think if you check it is Payson that wants the roundabouts not ADOT.
Why would there be one on Granite Dells? I think that is where it is, also the dumb circle there at Bison Ranch Condos across from the PD.
ADOT had no control or money in them.

They were probably the bright idea of Fred Carpenter. He was town manager in Wickenberg and there is one down there somewhere.

I think the phrase you are searching for Steve is...

If you can't see my mirrors I can't see you!

I'm not trying to push your buttons Pat. I come from a driving family. I drove over the road for a couple of years. My grandfather owned his own trucking company. Yes, there used to be a camaraderie of sorts between truck drivers. Sadly the day of the courteous, professional driver seems to be gone.

Along with everyone, every where else !

Not being a Payson resident, I held off on this thread. However, sometimes I just can't hold back.

My opinion in this matter won't be popular, but then again, I have been known to be on the unpopular side of other debates.

I think the roundabout is nice. It serves the purpose of slowing down traffic, but it doesn't bring it to a complete stop. I think the one in Payson is a form of rather "civilized" traffic control. Stop lights can sometime cause problems, too, such as when people try to run them. Which is cheaper to install and maintain -- the stop light or the roundabout?

My first introduction to roundabouts was in Boston where they weren't "civilized." Talk about a hair raising experience!!! I felt I was in a mixing bowl with the mixer speed set on high. Luckily I got spun out at the right street and I am able to be here today to post. :-)

Bernice,
It only slows down the traffic to get thru it then they are back up to speed immediately
I come almost to a complete stop when I try to go thru it because no one seems to know where to go.
All my driving life, I was told yield to the right. It is hard to yield to the left at 71.

Yeah, and the question is still the same: If the people of Payson don't want a roundabout, why is the City Council shoving one down their throats?

town council and they want adot to pay

Tom, it's because there are a couple of council members that love roundabouts. To heck with what the public wants. They don't listen to us "little people" anymore.

Well, there's an answer to that, Dean. Get them out and replace them with people who do listen.

There may be one person left on council who will listen, but then vote with the rest.

Eureka!!!

I finally got it figured out.

I know how to get the council to stop the new roundabout and get rid of the existing one.

Sometimes you just sit there staring at the obvious and don't see it. It's been right there in front of our eyes all this time and we missed it.

Think, now, think!

Don't you see it?

C'mon, think!

It's so obvious.

In fact, it's so obvious I'm not even going to post it.

First one who comes up with the answer that's been staring us all in the face wins a nice prize.

(We'll leave it up to Pat to provide the prize. Okay?)

Hire a back hoe and a bulldozer and late at night take turns digging up the existing one? And promising to do the same if they put in another one? Pat knows how to drive a front loader I think. I'll keep an eye out for the cops.

Wait just a minute now. I'm getting ready to build a bike that automatically goes left when you release the handlebars. Don't you see, it will automatically go around the round-a-bout. Around and around and around you go, it will be a record setter! So don't dig 'em up yet I want to be in the guiness book. I need to hurry though, fuel prices are going up so fast I may need sponsors to afford the gas!

Shovelhead. I need you in my plan. Here it is:

We turn up the heat in the board room, keep it turned up, put a pitcher of beer on the table in front of each council member, and allow no trips to the restroom.

Then, when the meeting ends we haul the whole council out to the island in the middle of the roundabout, get Shovelhead and his buddies to fill both lanes with speeding Harleys, and tell the council they don't get out of there until they either go p--s in a corner or pass a motion to get rid of the %$#@! thing!

Tom,
You are brilliant.
I am sure Shovelhead would make a great leader around the round about.

I had my friends in town yesterday but couldn't find the council people!

May God smile upon you and yours on this Mothers Day.