Your Roundup

What's your favorite book about Rim Country history?

My granddad's store ledger books from Hilligass Mercantile that was at the corner of Main and McLane in the old Rock Bldg.
They may not seem like history books, but as you read thru them, there is lots of history over a short period of time.

I love the old ledgers. A couple months ago I looked through the "Pieper Ledgers" in Tucson, covering from 1886 to 1900. it was pretty neat, though they wouldn't let me photograph them like I wanted to. My Dad was with me and especially enjoyed seeing "who drank with who" in the day by day ledger.

I actually was able to look through those ledgers of Pat's and they absolutely do tell a story, very interesting history.

But then she made me give them back.

I forgot to mention that article in yesterdays Roundup about Creekside Steakhouse. Mikey Marazza wrote about that era and how John and Olive met. Her article was factual and told how Creekside evolved. I was very lucky to be part of that era, and I think Mikey did a great job of telling the story. Tim, I hope you are able to use her story somehow. I plan to ask her if I can add the link to my website when I re-do the Christopher Creek page. I took the Christopher Creek link off because there have been so many changes, but when I get the info on the new people I can put it back on the site.

It was an incredible story by Mikey. I'll probably try to sit down with Olive at some point and get more of her stories (and her pictures). I suspect that we will see more of these "changing of the guard" type events in the next few years. I know Ethel has long wanted to get out of the DD and is getting up there in age. The effect of the smoking ban will also be very interesting.

Still, I must admit, I soooo wish that ILX hadn't torn the Cowboy Bar a few years ago. We just don't have an adequate place out here for live music, and that was a great spot.

Boy, don't get me started on the Cowboy Bar at Kohl's Ranch. One thing for sure, I will NEVER support that business. I'm sure they won't miss me, but I can yell can't I? What a blunder. How to win friends and influence people, huh? Tear down all the historic building, bulldoze them, "We want to make MONEY! To hell with history.

I respect the Wilbanks so much for how they have kept up the Lonepine Hotel. A perfect example of what can be done with old buildings.

I think that ILX went to a strategy where they felt they didn't need the locals. I know a couple people who work at Kohl's, and as I understand it, occupancy is running very good these days, in the 85-90% area. So as a historian, it's someone that I'll try to work with as time goes on because I think it can pay off in numerous ways.

But it's just another in a series of lessons that we see with outsiders coming in, thinking that our market is just like anyone elses, and then making some mistakes along the way that ultimately keep them from truly maximizing profit.

With regards to the Lone Pine, this is where the town has needed to step up. That corner is extremely important and it's been really neglected. (Though personally, I think a deal to have the plumbing and electric folks move to a more fitting location is most important.) Unfortunately, we have a lot of people involved in heritage organizations who are not true history people and in some cases are only using those organizations to try to improve their standing in town. The whole neighborhood in that area has some incredible potential. If the town will embrace the possibilites there, it could be a real showcase in its own right.

Speaking of that neighborhood...has anyone heard what's happened with the Cece Gibson place? The for sale by owner sign has been taken down and I've seen a significant amount of activity there as of late. If it has changed hands, I'd love to know that.

Tim,
Did you go look at it while the sign was up? If you didn't, you missed a real piece of history and how the houses really looked back in the early 1900's.
Not log cabins, and what 'they' are trying to make people believe how Payson was.
Bud's plumbing and the electric shop bring more money and taxes into the town in one day than all the antiques and cutesy stores on Main.
If you start with it, how about the car repair, vets, carpet stores and Drs. offices?
I don't know how you can say the Lone Pine has been neglected. The Wilbanks family has put a lot of money, time and effort into the bldg. and yard. Out of their own pockets, not grants and gimmes.
Putting that stupid fake bldg, beside it ruined the corner. what is the big attraction with it? some pictures and advertisments in the windows. The bldg does not look like the original as it was made of rock. Some of the rock is now the front of Wick's Auto repair.

I'd like to see the town do more around the Lone Pine. I think that corner has a ton of potential that is being wasted. I'd really love to see the Lone Pine morph into a dynamic Bed & Breakfast that people who come here from other places rave about. That's not the Wilbanks' fault.

I believe in the possibilities of Main Street, probably because I've seen pictures of what it once was. I love what places like Bud's contribute to our local economy, just believe that we would better served having them relocated to elsewhere within our town, something that people at PREDC and the Main Street office need to facilitate. I believe that effective redevelopment takes place block by block, not by addressing the entirety of Main Street the way it's been addressed. I don't like wasting people's time and certainly not their money. If we're going to do something, let's do it right and get it finished and then get the government the heck out of it. I'd like to see quicker progress down there than we've had, and to see a strong effort put forth in our most historic neighborhood north of Main Street.

The fake rock building was a decent start in my opinion. Keyword start, not middle, not end. The lack of follow through there has been disappointing and yes, by itself it's a complete waste. It cleaned up a corner but we probably could've done that for a lot less. No, the building doesn't look anything like it was. (For those who don't know, it was squared out with a rock wall to where McLane is now.) They played with it to try to make a park-like setup out of it, which given the dimensions of the property may have been ill-advised.

And yes, Payson was not a log cabin town. I think the old heart had some neat buildings. Tammany Hall was where Harrison's Garage is now located seems like a cool little place in photos I've seen. (And in the real early days that's as close to the log thing you got, best I can tell.) The Herron Hotel was a lot cooler looking than the replica at the museum makes it seem like, in part because the museum building is inherently too tucked in between other buildings and forest service green is not the best color. There was a water tower and windmill by Mart McDonald's store which was pretty cool. And the 16-to-1 was boxy, but distinctive, with a name that really reflected the time. And of course you still have the great Pieper House (albeit minus the ever distinctive cat-walk - did i say that right?) and the Sidles Mud House.

There are a lot of challenges that we have as a heritage community and everyone's input is really important.

What is historic north of Main St?
Depending on what you call historic. Except for the Gibson and Julia Randall house? Most of the old homes were either torn down, remodeled or burned. How far back are you going for historic? 1890-1900-1920-1930? I can drive around town and count most of the houses that were here when I was about 10 yrs. old. Didn't pay much attention before that and didn't have a bicycle to get around on.
Please don't go by the historical papers that the town paid for to have the buildings in Payson dated. The house that burned a couple of months ago at the corner of Oak and Frontier was not built on that corner it was out on McLane and moved to that lot.
If you look close at old pictures of the Pieper Mansion you will see it has been built on to on both the east and west sides. If you look at it now you can see the different colors of the original house and what was added on. The cabins there were moved from another location.
I don't think gov. should be in it.
As for the park at Main and Mclane. how can it be called a park? no grass, no trees, no water fountain no restrooms and most of all no parking. Over $300,000 so someone could get their name and picture in the paper.
There was and is a log bldg. It is the old Presbyterian Church. I think it was built in the late 20's or early 30's.
Places and things evolve, face it, You can't go back!!!
My granddad came here in 1898, He owned at one time the 16-1, the old Rock store, the Lone Pine, it was a house when he bought it and added the rooms on the east side, so it really isn't the original bldg. He had 5 houses to the west of it built, and he owned a sawmill. I don't know what else except for a couple of ranches. None of it is coming back. So accept it.

Pat,

You can't "go back" but the thing is that people want to go back and thus trying to emulate the feel of days bygone is a smart move for towns to do. Just look at what's happened with baseball parks. They take many features of the old ballparks and update them with newer things. And you know what? It makes for a great park in many cases. Wrigley Field is an attraction in and of itself. People are searching and thirsty for nostalgia. We have an opportunity to give it to them while in the process using some of those monies to preserve the truly historic stuff.

Things always get modified through the years. Some of those modifications can be good, some can be bad. Can you strip those modifications back and make something great? Yup. ASU did it with Old Main, and that is an incredible show piece.

Government is in so many things, why shouldn't they be in heritage? If you want to get them out of all that other stuff, then great. I'm all for it. But we've got to fight for our piece of the pie. I'm sick and tired of seeing far worse causes get funding while we get screwed as a heritage community. The government can fund a for profit hospital but we can't fund heritage? Huh?

Not sure if this qualifies: Judge Roy Bean Law West of the Pecos, sure was an interesting read.

Take up the pavement on Main St. get rid of the fake rocks on the buildings, and don't paint the metal roofs.
Removing the tin roof from the Julia Randall School was one of the dumber things done in the last few years.
Replica bldgs are the pits. Should never be done, especially 20 or 30 miles from where the original was.
The people that bought the Gibson home on McLane have done a great job on it. Painted it the same color and re-roofed with tin. I would like to see what they have done on the inside.
From what I saw inside a few years ago, it had to have been beautiful when built. Made the Pieper Mansion look like a shack inside and out.
I hope they redo it the same.